remember, pakistan is a country that we're not at war at. we're sending drones in, and we're assassinating people who have no say in the matter, no jury, no lawyers, no protection. >> you were recently in pakistan. are we killing civilians? >> yes, there is no question about it, ed. i mean, i talk to people. there was a father who held up a picture of his mother, 65-year-old woman, who was in the fields, who was killed by drones. they there have been over 178 children killed by drones. just think about the number of parents and relatives of those children who are now going to seek revenge for the rest of their lives because of what has been done. >> there is no doubt that this program has been effective in killing terrorists. but of course, if we are killing civilians and you were on the ground in pakistan and you report that to us tonight and you confirm it, what's the future of the program? i mean, are we creating more enemies? >> well, yes, definitely. and that's the concern that many people have articulated. there have been a series of s